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Thom + Nigel speak out on Israel. Shit hits big fan.

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I'm finding it increasingly difficult to laugh about this at all. Again, Ken Loach's most recent utterance sums it up.

Oh yeah, the guy who was exempt from the very ban he was peddling? Lots of uttering, I'm sure.

 

In less than 48 hours it'll all be done and over with and BDSM can go try and shove their agenda down the throat of the next band or artist or cultural academic that they see fit to demonize.

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I don't see how the band are being demonised. BDS asked the band to talk to them privately, the band ignored it, they then wrote a public letter explaining why they think the boycott is necessary (and again asked the band to discuss the issue with them). Since then Thom has been going off on one at both BDS patrons, and Radiohead fans.

 

It's an issue that needs to be discussed, but Radiohead have basically ignored the substantive content and gone on a PR offensive with the pretext that the boycott is divisive. Another piece published today by an Israeli Arab playing support at the concert, talking up the need to break down the barriers and bring people together with the music. Without any reflection on the literal division of the society behind physical barriers. There are even instances of Palestinian fans buying tickets and being refused visas for the concert.

 

The BDS people aren't perfect, and some of their comments have been unhelpful. Radiohead, however, have gone out of their way to not discuss the topic in a substantive manner.

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In less than 48 hours it'll all be done and over with and BDSM can go try and shove their agenda down the throat of the next band or artist or cultural academic that they see fit to demonize.

fuck off.

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I don't see how the band are being demonised. BDS asked the band to talk to them privately, the band ignored it, they then wrote a public letter explaining why they think the boycott is necessary (and again asked the band to discuss the issue with them). Since then Thom has been going off on one at both BDS patrons, and Radiohead fans.

 

It's an issue that needs to be discussed, but Radiohead have basically ignored the substantive content and gone on a PR offensive with the pretext that the boycott is divisive. Another piece published today by an Israeli Arab playing support at the concert, talking up the need to break down the barriers and bring people together with the music. Without any reflection on the literal division of the society behind physical barriers. There are even instances of Palestinian fans buying tickets and being refused visas for the concert.

 

The BDS people aren't perfect, and some of their comments have been unhelpful. Radiohead, however, have gone out of their way to not discuss the topic in a substantive manner.

very good, actually nuanced post as always

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fuck off.

I see Lil Wayne has got a concert lined up in Israel on August twenty something - so head on over to http://www.lilwaynehq.com/forums/ and we can start this whole thing over again.

 

But effectively (and I am sure with great relief from the bands perspective) Radioheads place in this debate will be done in 48 hours.

 

I'm sorry that the band disappointed you and did not do all they can to solve the worlds ills. << that's a joke by the way. Reminded me of Seinfeld responding to the critique that the show did not cast more black women. Seemed apt.

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The fact that you're arguing that Radiohead's part in it will be over in 48 hours is pretty much what BDS have been saying all along, i.e. there is persistent and systemic state oppression, and Radiohead are hoping that all the criticism will blow over after the gig. In short, Radiohead are choosing to be politically apathetic/neutral in the face of mass human rights abuses.

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The fact that you're arguing that Radiohead's part in it will be over in 48 hours is pretty much what BDS have been saying all along, i.e. there is persistent and systemic state oppression, and Radiohead are hoping that all the criticism will blow over after the gig. In short, Radiohead are choosing to be politically apathetic/neutral in the face of mass human rights abuses.

It's an awkward situation where people are holding musicians to the flame, but can't be bothered with doing the exact same thing with members of the political establishment in places like D.C. or London.

 

I'm glad there are people out that coordinating efforts to make a change - but asking Thom Yorke to give a thesis on a two state solution is a hilarious when politicians routinely sign off on billion dollar armament deals to Israel.

 

But Radiohead canceling a concert somehow helps negate that somehow? It's not even a drop in the water.

 

You guys are holding musicians to this weird moral standard and not applying it equally to the actual movers and shakers.

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It's an awkward situation where people are holding musicians to the flame, but can't be bothered with doing the exact same thing with members of the political establishment in places like D.C. or London.

 

I'm glad there are people out that coordinating efforts to make a change - but asking Thom Yorke to give a thesis on a two state solution is a hilarious when politicians routinely sign off on billion dollar armament deals to Israel.

 

But Radiohead canceling a concert somehow helps negate that somehow? It's not even a drop in the water.

 

You guys are holding musicians to this weird moral standard and not applying it equally to the actual movers and shakers.

this is super impressive, create an imaginary set of people who don't think politicians should also be held accountable, don't think a diverse set of tactics is needed, and then triumphantly refute said imaginary people.

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Political action isn't limited to appealing to the state to do something or stop doing something. Radiohead not doing a concert is a drop in the water, but multiple artists in different fields boycotting Israel isn't. One of the biggest barriers to changing state funding and support of Israel, particularly in the US, is the perception that Israel is simply doing what it needs to do in order to protect its people. This perception enables the US to provide arms and billions in financial support without mass public dissent. Bands like Radiohead are in the public arena and have the capacity to either challenge the perception that enables and facilitates the abuse of Palestinians, or reenforce it through apathy and political neutrality. Radiohead have, sadly, opted for the latter.

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Political action isn't limited to appealing to the state to do something or stop doing something. Radiohead not doing a concert is a drop in the water, but multiple artists in different fields boycotting Israel isn't. One of the biggest barriers to changing state funding and support of Israel, particularly in the US, is the perception that Israel is simply doing what it needs to do in order to protect its people. This perception enables the US to provide arms and billions in financial support without mass public dissent. Bands like Radiohead are in the public arena and have the capacity to either play creep or not play creep. Radiohead have, sadly, opted for the latter.

fixed

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i attend protests, am a member of a pro-palestinian party and have donated money to groups that support the palestinians. in short, i try to do as much as i can, even if one can always do more. all i'm asking - and apparently that's too much to ask - is for people who i admire and who are known for being politically conscious (lil wayne is not one of those people ftr) do as much as they can and use their platform to aid in that struggle.

 

i don't get why that is so hard to grasp.

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yeah, but can't they disagree about what constitutes help? i think that's what's at stake more than they not caring. i don't like that you can't disagree about how helpful a particular method of helping is.

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they're free to disagree but i don't think they've made any compelling arguments in favor of their position. flipping people off for not thinking this can be magically healed by the power of rock is not a humble, serious way of going about that debate and just makes it look as if it's not about politics at all for them.

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The biggest problem is that Radiohead have refused to engage with BDS or their arguments.

 

Aside from the insults, Thom has presented two justifications.

1) Playing in a country does not indicate support for the government.

2) BDS is divisive.

 

BDS have pointed out the clear problems with these justifications.

1) The mass abuse of Palestinians is not the result of one government. It is a feature of the Israeli state since its inception and, therefore, amounts to systemic state abuse and repression. There is a difference between the policies of an individual government, and repressive state apparatus that has existed unchallenged, within Israel, for close to 70 years.

 

2) Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank are already physically divided from the rest of the country. The cannot move freely, and do not have access to basic goods and infrastructures necessary to live. This is not an accident, but an intended result of the occupation.

 

 

My opinion is that the band didn't want to engage with difficult arguments that challenge their decision to play. They ignored it and hoped it would go away. When the public letter was issued, they responded with flimsy justifications and insults. If BDS didn't go public, they'd still be ignoring the issue now.

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they're free to disagree but i don't think they've made any compelling arguments in favor of their position. flipping people off for not thinking this can be magically healed by the power of rock is not a humble, serious way of going about that debate and just makes it look as if it's not about politics at all for them.

i think they toured there in the past, made friends, had good times, and made promises

 

no politics

 

i really think thats all it is

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maybe they feel like they don't owe anyone any compelling arguments.

yet, they do.

 

seeing as you've such problems with arrogance: how is that not an incredibly arrogant position to take?

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i think they toured there in the past, made friends, had good times, and made promises

 

no politics

 

i really think thats all it is

 

 

iv'e pointed this out a few times now.

but no one wants to address it.

 

there was no outrage when they played Israel before.

 

 

also- Roger Waters played there in 2006.

 

in the end, i think time would be better spent focusing on more productive actions in regards to the Palestinian cause.

if radiohead announced today that they were canceling their show, BDS would enjoy a minor victory.

then what?

 

what would happen then?

the wall would still be there, the USA would still give billions in military aid every year.

tell me, what would happen if they cancelled their show?

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yet, they do.

 

seeing as you've such problems with arrogance: how is that not an incredibly arrogant position to take?

 

i think Thom feels like he's  already explained their position.

 

why beat a dead horse?

do you realize that no matter WHAT explanation he gives, no one will be happy unless they cancel their concert?

why do his reasons have to qualify with anyone?

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