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Thom + Nigel speak out on Israel. Shit hits big fan.

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It would do the band more favours to write a more detailed articulate statement than that half-assed paragraph Thom put on Twitter. I can see both sides of it definitely, and since both are with good intentions it shouldn't be beneath the band to say 'well here is why' rather than this whole 'we don't answer to you' attitude. Enrich the debate guys.

Agreed. The fact that Thom and co ignored the issue for so long and when they did vocalize anything came out as an angered rant didn't help their cause. I would love to see a properly written (or articulated) statement from them.

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I think people need to recognise the difference between the Israeli state, and states like the US etc. We're not really talking about disagreement with some policies, for instance, proposing a cultural boycott because Trump undermines health care. Policies like this are relatively fluid and likely to change in tandem with which political party is in the ascent.

 

The key distinction is that Israel has engaged in a prolonged and systemic, state driven, brutalisation of an entire population. Including, but not limited too, dispossession of property, extraordinary imprisonment, restriction of movement, blockading trade, and the military targeting of civilian utilities and civilians themselves. Numerous human rights organisation have persistently stated that the Israeli state is inflicting a collective punishment on the Palestinian population on a daily basis. In short, the Israeli state systemically represses an entire people, and has done for decades without any suggestion that they intend on altering this policy. When abuses are on this scale, over such a long period of time, it is not an isolated policy, but a fundamental aspect of the state's ordinary functioning.

 

If Thom's argument was that he does not believe the cultural boycott is a productive means to challenge the mass rights violations inflicted by the Israeli state, and was able to explain why and what measures he thinks would be more effective, this would be far more inline with his previous political positions. But to equate it to disagreement with particular state policies is simply a deliberate attempt to misconstrue the situation.

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dunno why youre assuming people dont understand the severity of what palestine goes through.

 

Dont see why israeli people are being punished for what their government does.

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There is an important distinction between the government and the state (in democracies at least).

 

The government is a temporary elected group of representatives, the state aspires to permanency independent of electoral approval.

 

The policies Trump implements are governmental policies, temporary and likely to change when he is no longer in office.

 

The policies that oppress Palestinian people have been a stable feature of the Israeli state since its foundation, and persist independent of any government that has been in power. In other words, they are a fundamental feature of the Israeli state.

 

The point of the cultural boycott, in it's most basic sense, is a symbolic stance against the policies of the Israeli state. The Israeli state is inflicting a violent collective punishmemt on Palestians, so artists highlight this via a nonviolent withdrawal of cultural goods from the Israeli people.

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Randy, no one disputes that atrocities carried out by the Israeli state is abominable- I mean...is anyone apologizing for Israel here? I don't think so.

 

The issue that people have (not just Thom - but great thinkers like Noam Chomsky) is the way in which BDS carries its message, how it seeks to attack all of the Israeli state - as opposed to just settlements - as well as this opinion that people on this board are perfectly personifying : in that if you disagree with BDS then you must support occupation.

 

That is simply not the case. We can disagree with the method - but there is full support for the goal.

 

BDS is trying to apply South Africa anti-Apratheid tactics to solve the issue - when these events are not compatible.

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There is an important distinction between the government and the state (in democracies at least).

 

The government is a temporary elected group of representatives, the state aspires to permanency independent of electoral approval.

 

The policies Trump implements are governmental policies, temporary and likely to change when he is no longer in office.

 

The policies that oppress Palestinian people have been a stable feature of the Israeli state since its foundation, and persist independent of any government that has been in power. In other words, they are a fundamental feature of the Israeli state.

 

The point of the cultural boycott, in it's most basic sense, is a symbolic stance against the policies of the Israeli state. The Israeli state is inflicting a violent collective punishmemt on Palestians, so artists highlight this via a nonviolent withdrawal of cultural goods from the Israeli people.

by that measure, y'know, war crimes are kind of a "fundamental feature" of the USA

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There is an important distinction between the government and the state (in democracies at least).

 

The government is a temporary elected group of representatives, the state aspires to permanency independent of electoral approval.

 

The policies Trump implements are governmental policies, temporary and likely to change when he is no longer in office.

 

The policies that oppress Palestinian people have been a stable feature of the Israeli state since its foundation, and persist independent of any government that has been in power. In other words, they are a fundamental feature of the Israeli state.

 

The point of the cultural boycott, in it's most basic sense, is a symbolic stance against the policies of the Israeli state. The Israeli state is inflicting a violent collective punishmemt on Palestians, so artists highlight this via a nonviolent withdrawal of cultural goods from the Israeli people.

 

 

yeah sure so maybe take issue with everytime the western governments prop them up instead of a rock band i dunno.

 

and i dunno doesnt that kind of thinking trivialise the horrible things (pick a county) has done? just cuz it is a temporary policy? if the UN is pressuring them and has no effect i dont see why preventing a radiohead concert would do anything, or why radiohead playing there is advocating apartheid. 

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there have been plenty of protests against many US and NATO actions and temporary policies though? it's not as if people are only interested in protesting israel, it's just that this protest is organized differently.

 

and like people have tried to explain several times now in this thread - seemingly to deaf ears - no-one thinks one gig is going to bring israel down. it's about supporting a cause.

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it's about supporting a cause.

Missing the point. I am quite certain that Radiohead are in full support of a solution in the area that benefits everyone. Or certainly - completly obliterates the horrors being carried out in Gaza.

 

But BDS is not the only game in town and just because someone disagrees with BDS does not mean they don't support the cause.

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Really think BDS is in the wrong here.

 

Instead of attacking and trolling a rock musician - probably want to spend more time and energy going after politicians in London and DC that routinely sign off on weapons and armaments to Israel.

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there have been plenty of protests against many US and NATO actions and temporary policies though? it's not as if people are only interested in protesting israel, it's just that this protest is organized differently.

 

and like people have tried to explain several times now in this thread - seemingly to deaf ears - no-one thinks one gig is going to bring israel down. it's about supporting a cause.

 

yeah but it seems like youre saying you either support the boycott or you approve of apartheid which some of us dont agree is the case 

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It would be another argument entirely if Thom stated that he didn't support BDS because he believed it was ineffective or unhelpful, and explained his position on rights abuses in Palastine. However, his underlying argument is that playing Israel is no different than playing in the US under Trump, i.e. the persistent mass rights violations in Palestine are no different than Trump's Muslim ban etc. In refusing to recognise the distinction, Thom is being politically apathetic, something that is not consistent with his past and present actions in other contexts.

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It would be another argument entirely if Thom stated that he didn't support BDS because he believed it was ineffective or unhelpful, and explained his position on rights abuses in Palastine. However, his underlying argument is that playing Israel is no different than playing in the US under Trump, i.e. the persistent mass rights violations in Palestine are no different than Trump's Muslim ban etc. In refusing to recognise the distinction, Thom is being politically apathetic, something that is not consistent with his past and present actions in other contexts.

*sigh*

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/thom-yorke-breaks-silence-on-israel-controversy-w485142

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It would be another argument entirely if Thom stated that he didn't support BDS because he believed it was ineffective or unhelpful, and explained his position on rights abuses in Palastine. However, his underlying argument is that playing Israel is no different than playing in the US under Trump, i.e. the persistent mass rights violations in Palestine are no different than Trump's Muslim ban etc. In refusing to recognise the distinction, Thom is being politically apathetic, something that is not consistent with his past and present actions in other contexts.

yeahhh I'm also convinced the flipping off bds supporters doesnt sound like he cares about the struggle at all

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There's nothing in that interview that outlines his position of Israeli abuses in Palestine, other than 'cultural boycotts are divisive'. But when we're talking about a society that is already physically divided, in a quite literal sense, that argument is a bit silly.

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yeahhh I'm also convinced the flipping off bds supporters doesnt sound like he cares about the struggle at all

 

it's not bds supporters, it's people who paid to go to a concert to tell him he doesn't care about human rights because he disagrees with cultural boycotts of entire populations.

 

also, saying "some fucking people" is not flipping someone off as expressing amazement at some people's nerve to tell him what to do with his life and his work, and whether he should adhere to movements he doesn't agree with

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yeah but it seems like youre saying you either support the boycott or you approve of apartheid which some of us dont agree is the case

oh nah, i just think it jives poorly with radiohead's track record of supporting progressive left-wing causes and makes them look selectively blind

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it's not bds supporters, it's people who paid to go to a concert to tell him he doesn't care about human rights because he disagrees with cultural boycotts of entire populations.

 

also, saying "some fucking people" is not flipping someone off as expressing amazement at some people's nerve to tell him what to do with his life and his work, and whether he should adhere to movements he doesn't agree with

I think that speaks volumes if that's how thom interprets people showing solidarity with flags.

 

giving people the middle finger is quite literally flipping them off, I dunno what kind of mental gymnastics you're attempting here

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i didnt read about the middle finger, sorry, you're right

 

and going to a rh concert w a palestinian flag isnt about showing soladirity really tho, it's about telling them they don't care about palestine.

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Trolling is trolling. They knew what they were doing.

 

And if they really thought Thom would see the flags and have a complete 180 on his viewpoint - that's just incredibly optimistic.

 

Shame on Thom for biting.

 

Edit: I saw a video of the people waving a flag and Thom saying "some fucking people". But was that in response to those people - or assumed?

 

Because Thom has a history of saying things like that before, during, and after a song that has nothing to do with whatever is going on in the crowd.

 

I didn't see a video of him flipping the bird - but was that while he was saying "some f people"?

 

Edit: caught the angle of Thom flipping the bird during the song. Certainly seems like a reaction to the flags. You gotta be better than that.

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you say that as if it's the same thing as going there and yelling "play freebird"

Is yelling play freebird trolling? I didn't think it was. Is there a story there that would make that so?

 

I think yelling play Creep in like 2002 would be trolling because Thom HATED that song. Seems like they've kind of...warmed up to it.

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circumstantial evidence -- not really conclusive to anything -- finger at 0:25

 

 

Shame on Thom for biting.

if... then yeah.

 

no reason he shouldn't see palestinian flags.

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